Curse

Xenrath · Aug 16, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Ok, question.
Why buy a game that has a storyline and missions if you don't want to play them?

Answers? anyone?

Nice way to obsfucate and confuse there - nobody's saying that at all, what they're saying is you shouldn't be forced to do the same ones over and over again to get to the bits of the game you do find interesting, or to achieve other goals e.g. capping skills or just plain wanting to explore. Nobody should be forced to redo missions over and over (and over and over and over and over... you get the picture) especially if you happen to find some missions insanely boring and/or irritating. I've completed Factions several times over I might add, and one of my main original characters (my Mesmer) frankly I just didn't feel like going through everything yet again just to get him forward a bit... that char is still at Kaineng because of locked gates making it a chore to redo a set path every time, as opposed to being something fun.

Stockholm · Aug 16, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

Nice way to obsfucate and confuse there - nobody's saying that at all, what they're saying is you shouldn't be forced to do the same ones over and over again to get to the bits of the game you do find interesting, or to achieve other goals e.g. capping skills or just plain wanting to explore. Nobody should be forced to redo missions over and over (and over and over and over and over... you get the picture) especially if you happen to find some missions insanely boring and/or irritating. I've completed Factions several times over I might add, and one of my main original characters (my Mesmer) frankly I just didn't feel like going through everything yet again just to get him forward a bit... that char is still at Kaineng because of locked gates making it a chore to redo a set path every time, as opposed to being something fun.

Yes that is what ppl are saying, You your self want to skip part of the game TO GET TO THE FUN PARTS. Well as I said scrap all missions and let's just have a new map every month with fun parts.

If you have read the whole thread there is ideas that would leave the map open for exploration and skill capping, but not let you skip missions just to get to the fun ones. The gates are a nessesary evil, and I hope they have some kind of blocks in Nightfall.

Mordakai · Aug 16, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Why don't we just get a map with zones full of monsters and no missions, then A-net can serve up a new map every month for $50 and all new toons are lvl 20 fully skilled and unlocked. No need to write a stupid story line no one cares about anyway. just some outposts where you can show of the latest "Uber" armour and flash some rank, screem a few "noobs" and then what?

????
Answers? anyone?

1. No one would pay $50 a month for Guild Wars, no matter how good it was. No game is worth that much cash.

2. Instead of ditching stories and missions all together, (?!?) just make them better. As has been said on other threads, don't make the bonuses time-based, and don't make missions the only way to progess in the game

What I love about Prophecies was there are always alternatives. Do I want to collect stuff to get armor, or buy it? Do I want to progress through the missions to move on, or just explore?

I don't want to eliminate choices. I want more choices.

Removing the missions and story is not even an option. Just remove the gates. I can't believe some people actually like gates. Why do you want to be forced to do certain missions before you can get a Certain Elite, for example? How is that fun (especially I you don't know you had to do the mission, and waste valuable time trying to get into someplace you just can't. For no good reason.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

The gates are a nessesary evil, and I hope they have some kind of blocks in Nightfall.

Why are they a "necessary evil"? The only purpose is to artificially lengthen a short game.

This is not a game balance issue, we are all level 20 already. This is not an Armor issue, we all have access to max armor at Keineng Center (sp?)

So, why do you want to force me to play the game a certain way? I'll still do the missions, but I'll enjoy them more knowing I'd doing them by choice, not by force.

Anet, make the game the most fun for the most people. Unlocked gates don't hurt anyone, those that want to do the missions in order, and not stray off the path, can do so. But those of us who are Mavericks, and want to stray off the path would like the ability to do so.

WasAGuest · Aug 16, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Yes that is what ppl are saying, You your self want to skip part of the game TO GET TO THE FUN PARTS. Well as I said scrap all missions and let's just have a new map every month with fun parts.

If you have read the whole thread there is ideas that would leave the map open for exploration and skill capping, but not let you skip missions just to get to the fun ones. The gates are a nessesary evil, and I hope they have some kind of blocks in Nightfall.

Not so much as "skip the mission" or just "to get to the fun parts". but something to do or somewhere to see when you don't feel like doing VSquare (for example) yet again because the "other side" brought in all henchies and caused an instant fail because Mhenlo/Togo got killed. The locked gates stop the player from playing all together if they don't want to do that one or another mission yet again. If the locked gates were not there, at least the player could go off and explore some and come back to the mission when they are less irritated or in the mood to try again. As it is now, the player is forced into doing the mission or quests... or Anet is really just holding the hands of the players and saying "Here now, you do this one next. After this one, go over here and talk to this person so you can go here". I don't want my hand held and to be shown how to play the game by the makers. I want to figure out and find something on my own. That's part of the fun and Faction's locked gates removes that part of the fun... and kills the illusion of a living world at the same time.
I'm all for "road blocks" though as it does give a just reward for completion of something. However, the "road blocks" should not block off exploration; instead future missions/merchants and such should not be available to the players untill they have gotten past the previous ones.
Infusion for example was a briliant way of getting the players to do certain missions otherwise they would instantly die while exploring. But the option was still there to do that.
Natural bridges are another way to limit exploration and put in road blocks, such as getting to the Crystal Desert via the mission.
These types of road blocks make since to the lore and game world. A guard standing by a gate for no reason other than to not let you pass cause you haven't completed VSquare for the 10th time, makes no since.

Mordakai · Aug 16, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

I don't want my hand held and to be shown how to play the game by the makers. I want to figure out and find something on my own. That's part of the fun and Faction's locked gates removes that part of the fun... and kills the illusion of a living world at the same time..

well said.

Stockholm · Aug 16, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

PLZ read post # 24
Take away the roadblocks, but make it so you can't do mission #3 if you diden't do #2 and so forth, then you can still explore and fight all you want, but not finish the game by jumping over the missions.

Post #94 is start of Sarcasm.

Mordakai · Aug 16, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

PLZ read post # 24
Take away the roadblocks, but make it so you can't do mission #3 if you diden't do #2 and so forth, then you can still explore and fight all you want, but not finish the game by jumping over the missions.

Post #94 is start of Sarcasm.

So, you're anti-gates, too? Sorry, 94 didn't sound much like sarcasm, except maybe being sarcastic to anti-gaters (why buy a game with a story at all, etc, etc.)

You still didn't answer my question of why you thought gates were a "necessary evil."

Amy Awien · Aug 16, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Why buy a game that has a storyline and missions if you don't want to play them?

I want to enjoy the game, including the storyline, but the locked gates do not enhance my enjoyment because they tear me away from the fantasy and ruin my 'immersion' in this world which in turn negatively affects my immersion into the sory.

The locked gates - and the timed missions - have ruined the story for me.

Francis Demeules · Aug 16, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

What can I say on this... Gates in the middle of a desert. Think about Gates in Crystal Desert. Seriously, All players here have created a circle:

Blocked Gates -» Players blame about exploring and must follow missions -» Anet removes the gates -» No Gates -» Players blame about runners and "kill the fun" by running -» Anet put the Gates -» Blocked Gates..........

Better think about another design of gameplay outside this circle than starting blaming in each side.

Gates or not, GW: P and GW: F were great. Both have different feelings. That was one of my reason I play this game and like it no matter what the players think about the Chapters. Faction make me feels different while playing than always have the same old feelings and get tired in few sec and quit GW.

Yayap the Necro · Aug 16, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

yea i enjoy tyria's different settings, like snowy mountain shiverpeaks, the desert, the forests, and everything...cantha is just, valleys, slums, and a bit of snow on Shing Jea, so i want it to be like Tyria in terrain and views, but cantha to take out the runners, takes the fun right out of it...i've only gotten a run to Droknar's Forge, but that was only so i had a spot to sell, i've done all the quests so far to beacon's, LA, kaineng, the desert, or where ever i need to go...besides, you can save some money...

Stockholm · Aug 16, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

So, you're anti-gates, too? Sorry, 94 didn't sound much like sarcasm, except maybe being sarcastic to anti-gaters (why buy a game with a story at all, etc, etc.)

You still didn't answer my question of why you thought gates were a "necessary evil."

Take the "elit" mission weekend for example, a lot of ppl that weren't ready for (did not have all the skills, or the knowledg of playing their character) could get in to the "elit missons" and try it, same thing as being run straight to Cavalon or HzH. But being forced to play through the missions before you reach that point in the game teaches you to use the skills and let's you experiment with diffrent buildts, and to cap the elit skills on the way.
Since you can't tell when making a group for a mission if a player has played his/her way to that point or been run there, I think they are a nessesary evil.(give them a Title that says what the last mission in sequence completed was untill they have beat Shiro)

Before you FLAME ME, they might not be better players but atleast they have played against + lvl24 monsters not just the baby monsters on Shing Jeia Island

Amy Awien · Aug 16, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Since you can't tell when making a group for a mission if a player has played his/her way to that point or been run there, I think they are a nessesary evil.(give them a Title that says what the last mission in sequence completed was untill they have beat Shiro)

You still won't be able to tell whether they are good just by looking at how far they've come in the game. Excellent players with lots of experience on multiple character might have been run far into the game and they'd perform great, and bad players might have made it through all the mission because they happend to get decent PuG's eventually.

Mission progress is a poor indicator of playing expertise.

SnipiousMax · Aug 16, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

People are going to complain either way. Personally I like the fact that runners were absent from the picture in Factions.

Honestly I'd like the missions to be NON-LINEAR. I think this would take HUGE leaps and bounds in the right direction. If we start at a central point in the world, and are allowed to choose and pick our path through the missions which wary in scope and difficulty it will nearly eliminate both sides of this arguement. I like this idea, as Elites would be more accesible than they are now, and we'd have more opportunity to use the best elites in more of the game.

gene terrodon · Aug 16, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Honestly I'd like the missions to be NON-LINEAR. I think this would take HUGE leaps and bounds in the right direction. If we start at a central point in the world, and are allowed to choose and pick our path through the missions which wary in scope and difficulty it will nearly eliminate both sides of this arguement. I like this idea, as Elites would be more accesible than they are now, and we'd have more opportunity to use the best elites in more of the game.

This is an excellent point in which I agree. Anet did it once, albeit on a small scale, with the Crystal Desert missions in Tyria. Didn't matter in which order, you just had to finish them all before you got to fight your doppelganger.
Doing it on a larger scale shouldn't be very difficult and after you complete all of the missions, the last mission on the map will be accessible.

Stockholm · Aug 16, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You still won't be able to tell whether they are good just by looking at how far they've come in the game. Excellent players with lots of experience on multiple character might have been run far into the game and they'd perform great, and bad players might have made it through all the mission because they happend to get decent PuG's eventually.

Mission progress is a poor indicator of playing expertise.

But it shows player experiance, then if they still are usless at least you don't get, Oh where do you get that skill, Ok I missed that, I got run here.

Mordakai · Aug 16, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

But it shows player experiance, then if they still are usless at least you don't get, Oh where do you get that skill, Ok I missed that, I got run here.

For the last time, that problem was unique to Prophecy. It would not be a problem in Factions, because you can buy skills anywhere. And someone could just as easily miss an Elite skill if they don't know where to look.

There is NO game reason to have locked gates in Factions. We're all 20 level (or soon will be). We all have max armor (or should, anyway).

In fact, the Skills issue is one reason there should NOT be locked gates, so people like MMs won't be handicapped in the first missions until they get Flesh Golem.

Let us run and get the skills we want, then do the missions with the characters we want. Why do you have a problem with this?

Plushie Penguin · Aug 16, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

as long as you can't enter the mission/outpost, I'm fine with whatever the team does

Stockholm · Aug 16, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

For the last time, that problem was unique to Prophecy. It would not be a problem in Factions, because you can buy skills anywhere. And someone could just as easily miss an Elite skill if they don't know where to look.

There is NO game reason to have locked gates in Factions. We're all 20 level (or soon will be). We all have max armor (or should, anyway).

In fact, the Skills issue is one reason there should NOT be locked gates, so people like MMs won't be handicapped in the first missions until they get Flesh Golem.

Let us run and get the skills we want, then do the missions with the characters we want. Why do you have a problem with this?

you know what, just sell all the skills in Shing Jeia to lvl1 straight away
never mind just serve it on a silver platter from e-bay
thank god for henchis

Mordakai · Aug 16, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

you know what, just sell all the skills in Shing Jeia to lvl1 straight away
never mind just serve it on a silver platter from e-bay
thank god for henchis

As usual, your sarcasm misses the point.

Or do you honestly think that keeping Flesh Golem locked in the Skyway is for "game balance?"

I'm not asking for Elite skills to handed to me. All I'm asking for is a chance to cap them BEFORE I do some missions, if I choose too.

Again, this is about choice. You can choose to go through the game, in order, and finish way before me and get all the Elite skills then. I prefer to make a character I actually want to play first, then do the missions with said character, rather than a handicapped version.

I honestly don't see why you find my choice so offensive! It's not like it would change the way you play...

Amy Awien · Aug 16, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

But it shows player experiance, ...

You can't tell player experience from the toon, it could be their first, or their tenth - and free exploration will yield a lot more experience then rushing through the missions.

Quote:

... then if they still are usless at least you don't get, Oh where do you get that skill, Ok I missed that, I got run here.

There are no skill quests - after your first mission - in 'Locked-Gates Cantha'. Someone might have gone all the way to HzH with the skills they received in Shin Jea Monestary.

Locked Gates are a reason to stay away from free exploration and thus finding and doing quests outside of the primary quest. And since it are specifically those side quests that yield skills, locked gates are actually going to work against skillacquisition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plushie Penguin

as long as you can't enter the mission/outpost, I'm fine with whatever the team does

And why is that? What are you reasons against free exploration?